42. Interview with Alexis: The Expansion of what is Possible

*There is swearing in this episode

In this episode, I interview Dr. Alexis Edwards of the Expansion Principle. Here, we discuss the symbiotic nature of life, hierarchal vs. non-hierarchal living, and false scarcity. We also talk about releasing what we’re taught for things to mean – a topic that is closely intertwined with money mindset, and plays a major role in realizing the abundance all around us.

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Instagram: @dralexisedwards and @expansion_principle_institute
The Expansion Principle Institute: www.expansionprincipleinstitute.com
Podcast: Seeds of Expansion

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Shelby: Okay, welcome. Today we have our guest, Dr. Alexis Edwards, of the expansion principal. I love Alexis, like I’m just, Alexis . You’re not gonna hear Dr. Alexis throughout this whole thing, but I do wanna highlight that she is a doctor. Like she has all these, not just like the accreditation, right, but like the experience and trainings and just like all this amazing stuff that just makes her who she is.

So we’re gonna include all the links to find her in the description for the episode. So just make sure you scroll down and click those links. Go find her on Instagram. Uh, go look at her website, like whatever we’ve got, like go, go join email list to like go follow her. Go do all the things. So welcome, Alexis. 

Alexis: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here. We’ve been talking about doing this for quite some time.

Shelby: I know. And I think I, have I been on your podcast? 

Alexis: I don’t think so. 

Shelby: I know, okay, so what we, we did some Facebook Lives together then.

Alexis: We have, yeah, we’ve done a series of Facebook Lives and those are really fun.

I think it’s before either one of us had podcasts. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Probably before like everybody and their mom had a podcast. 

Alexis: That is basically what it is. Everyone and their mom and their mom’s brother’s uncle. Yeah.

Shelby: Yes. But. Yeah, back when those were a thing. So I, we talked about this beforehand, but I didn’t talk about this. Like, is there anything you’d like to add to introduce yourself to everybody? 

Alexis: Oh gosh, I have no idea. Um, 

Shelby: It’s okay. 

Alexis: I’m a doctor of Chinese medicine, that’s my background. I was in private practice for 11 years.

Um, my work now focuses primarily like on energetics and spiritual evolution and also, Very human like we are in these physical bodies, and also understanding why we can feel odd and unusual, especially right now because of all of the, yeah, all of the growth that we’re having at a rapid rate. And so that’s, that’s what my work focuses on.

And yeah. 

Shelby: Yay. I love it. And I think that’s part of why like, we get along so well is that it’s also still grounded in like we’re humans. 

Alexis: Mm-hmm.

Shelby: Like there’s not any of that bypassing, whatnot, but it facilitates a deeper understanding. You help people to facilitate a deeper understanding, not just of themselves, but of like all the things going on around them.

Alexis: Yeah. For sure. 

Shelby: I love it. And then the other thing that I like to just have everybody start off with, is how do you define like money mindset? What does it mean to you? And then we’ll get into like a very conversational, just so everybody’s aware, it’ll be much more conversational after this. But just to start off, how would you define? 

Alexis: Yeah, so for me, money mindset is probably the conscious aspect of our relationship with money.

So it’s what we’re aware of. Even if we don’t even label it as a relationship yet. Like even if we’re not aware of the relationship, the money mindset part is the conscious aspect of it. Cause there’s so much, you know, intertwined, which is what’s cool about your work is yes, you, you talk a lot about the human part, the conscious part, but also there’s all of the other part that you kind of work with as well, which is really important.

But for me, yeah, that money mindset is the conscious part of the, the, the relationship with money. The stuff we can actually maybe even do something about. Cuz even if we’re not, we don’t always know, Right? Right at the forefront what we believe about it. But we can access that stuff more readily than like the fifth generation of the blah blah, blah of the, whoever that holds, you know?

Which is important too. 

Shelby: Yes. 

Alexis: But it’s not as easily accessible. Where for me, money mindset is you just look a little bit and you can see it. It comes up spilling out pretty easily. 

Shelby: The image that just came to mind was, poking like a balloon or something, like some sort of barrier, and then it’s just like, *spilling sound* 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: I love that.

Yeah, it is a bit like that. You just kinda like poke your brain and then it’s like, Yeah. So yeah, and I love things to be easy and accessible because like you said, like not everything is, and so where can you start? With what’s for me, where do I start is what’s most easily accessible and then building it up from there.

Although some people do you like to dive into the deep end and, and there is no shame in that, like, yeah. But I am the, the toe dipper, so 

Alexis: Yeah. And sometimes that’s important and I think we all, sometimes even the toe dipping is something that’s important regardless of where we are at, is knowing that sometimes you can do that.


Shelby: Yeah. Yay. I love it. So you’re gonna hear that a lot by the way, just like Alexis and everybody. “I love that,” and then like “amazing.” I think those are like, 

Alexis: Those are your words. 

Shelby: Those are my words. If we had signature Shelby words or like a word bubble, it would be like “I love that,” 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: And “amazing,” like just all over the place. 

Alexis: That’s wonderful. Mine’s “awesome,” and also “I love that,” and I’m sure there’s others. I’ll say “expansion” 55 million times. Yeah, those are my words. 

Shelby: I like them and I’m sure like in our to, to kind of bring it into the further conversation, like you and I have worked together since, was it 2019?

Alexis: I wanna say, yeah. Yep. Since 2019. 

Shelby: Yeah. So a long time. And like,

Alexis: It was a long time.

Shelby: Funny side story. Um, I was working at Target at the time and, um, I was so like, like, I was like, Oh, like I just, I love Alexis just for everybody. And Alexis, I’m sure you hear this from me enough, but like, I love Alexis like deeply, truly, um, joyful part of my life, Alexis.

And, I was so nervous about like, working together that like, I was like on my breaks, like trying to make sure I was like responding and like getting her links and all the information because like one, I, I’m a nervous person, right? That’s just like part of who I am to an extent, but like, I just want to highlight the amount of like, respect and awe and like, honor it has been for me because,

Alexis: Thank you. Gonna make cry. 

Shelby: Um, I’m gonna make me cry. And so like, just like, I remember that distinctly like being there and like wanting to like, like knowing I had to be at the separate place that, and I had to give my attention there, but also like just knowing like how maybe I knew, didn’t know, but like that, like how big it was I think at the time, and how it continued to grow into this wonderful relationship that we have. 

Alexis: Yeah, it really did. I remember our, like the way that we began and like how, for me, I looked, found you looked up your information, saw what all that you provided and was like an immediate, so for reference, for anyone who does human design stuff, I am a sacral authority and my sacral is connected to my spleen. So when I know, I know.

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: So for me, I saw it and it was like, Ah-huh, that’s it. This is what’s healthy for me. This is correct. And I like knew immediately, which is different, the way other people operate, but that’s what it is for me. Right. And I remember having that sensation and I just, I don’t always action it right away.

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: But with you, it was just, Yep. Whatever she has, I want it and I want all of it. It was, yeah, just an immediate draw that this was the correct next step, which I think that, um, whether or not it takes us time to make a decision, I think that sometimes when something’s for us, we can feel it in our field. And like, even if it takes time to like reconcile it, we can, we know when, you know, something magicals about to happen. And that’s definitely the sensation that I had. 

Shelby: Yeah, me too. And it wasn’t money mindset at the time, just for like everybody who’s been part of this conversation is it wasn’t money mindset at the time.

It was, um, energy work for business and I was primarily trained in Reiki at the time. But since I have also been trained in EP, the Expansion Principal, which love. So it was, it wasn’t money Mindset. And just like, as a quick background, I came to Money Mindset in part because other clients, I had like the mindset was a piece that we, we could do the energy work and then if the mindset didn’t change, the energy kind of reverted at times.

Yeah. It, it became a continual block. Not saying that this is true for Alexis or not, but. Just in general. So that’s kind of where it shifted and that’s why like I’ve been focusing on the mindset cuz it’s like we, I found we kind of have to get that situated first and the clients who had it situated first did really well with the energy work. So it was just, that’s, that was like, at the time it was different. And so we started doing, what I termed Biz Magic Reiki sessions at the time. 

Alexis: Yeah.

Shelby: And I think you started off with like a couple one-off sessions before a package. But yeah, I remember the like, you were like, Yeah, this is correct. This is what we’re doing. Like I didn’t like, and this is like everybody there, like I don’t fully understand exactly what’s going on. Not because like, I’m not always great at describing things, but you were like, I’m in, like, what are we doing? So. 

Alexis: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, I kinda, it’s how I operate in the world and I, I stand for is like knowing. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And we don’t, we can’t always, ah, you know, it varies depending on what’s there. Um, sometimes things are, sometimes not, we’re not ready to be ready. Right? But sometimes we are and when we are, it’s beautiful. And, um, I wanted to remark on the, the mindset part and like the importance of that. We, you have to get your mind on board. If you don’t get a person’s mind on board, it doesn’t really matter what you do.

Um, and interestingly, you know, I focus on like the other side of it, but like there’s always things that have to be done to get the mind on board. Cause if the mind does not accept the changes that are made, sometimes the energetics for me in my observation, sometimes they revert, but sometimes they don’t revert.

But the person doesn’t have access to the new energy. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: They’re still operating in what their mind says. So like the, and then it almost creates more of an issue because there’s this, um, separation between what the energy’s doing and what it’s capable of and clear, right? 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And then what the mind believes.

And so you have these two different things, so this person can now feel even more of a pull to like their expansion, but the mind won’t allow it. And so there’s a confusion of what’s going on. And so yeah, getting the mind on board is like, so incredibly important. 

Shelby: Yeah. I like how you, how you described that.

Like I think that does really encapsulate it. Like yeah, at times it does revert. But what I was missing from that conversation, and I’m glad you brought it, is that there is this greater dissonance than that happens. 

Alexis: Mm-hmm. 

Shelby: And it is that greater confusion cuz you can tap in energetically and be like, it’s here.

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: Like it’s here. Why isn’t it like here? So like I “heered” with like big here with my hands and then like here in my body wise and it here. And that was definitely like a hiccup. So it’s like how do we bridge, And you talk a lot about bridging and, and bridges, um, so I know this is your expertise too, but yeah, it was like, how do we bridge? And I don’t think that was, I think that’s a normal human experience.

Like I don’t think that’s always like a, there’s something wrong. It’s just normal human experience cuz we have brains. And brains just do what they do. And we’re like, “Excuse me”. 

Alexis: Yeah. My view is really has been that the mind is a tool for the human vessel. And the human vessel’s job is to keep itself alive. So the mind is the tool that helps keep it alive.

And so, um, working from that framework, like when we’re afraid or we have like whatever, and not being hard on ourselves and understanding that, it’s the brain, it’s the mind’s job. It’s the mind’s job. It’s a human’s job to keep this vessel alive. And anything that’s perceived as change or transformation is often like computed as death.

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And our body and our mind does not want to choose things that like equate death, you know? 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And so, um, yeah, it’s really fascinating the way that our systems work. You know?

Shelby: It is, it really is. And like I think through both of us working together, right? Cause like you are/were my client, but like at the same time, like I’m learning from you. Right? It’s a co-creative relationship, I really think between clients and coaches or mentors or whomever, right? Relationships are very co-creative and so like, I think for both of us, like that was a huge expansion as we were going through it. 

Alexis: Oh yeah. And that’s really, I don’t know. I feel like when we connect with people and we work with people, that’s really the way that it ought to be, like, feel collaborative, um, and feel expansive and the expansive nature of it.

I think even, even if we’re reading a book, you know, or listening to somebody’s podcast and not interacting with them one to one or a program or whatever, there should be like a sensation of expansion. And this doesn’t always mean like, Oh, I love everything the person says. It’s not always that. Right?

Because sometimes the most fun for me, I’ve found at this point in my life, I can have the most fun with a book that I don’t agree with everything. Cuz it’s like, oh, this is for real. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: Because I don’t agree with it all. You know, it’s just really nice because it feels expansive. And so that’s the invitation too.

Like we don’t have to agree with everything a person says because that’s part of the evolution. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: Um, and sometimes we may eventually, right? And sometimes there’s other nuances that we see that are part of that. And, um, it’s just really interesting. I, I definitely feel that there should be like that sensation of expansion.

With whoever we are. Yeah. Learning and growing from, and that mutually, you know, um, symbiotic, really. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: Yeah. Cause if we talk about energy exchanges and with people we work with are in our lives, like there should be symbiosis, it should be symbiotic of like, what we’re doing, you know, how we’re working with –

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And so it makes sense that like some, making sure that it doesn’t feel like someone is over you. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: You know, and I think that that might be something that’s kind of common in the coaching industry is that people choose people that feel like are over them or better than them or like whatever. And which is really different than being like, Oh, a person’s done what I’ve done and I want, that’s different. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: Right? But when you make it hierarchal and I think that, your work and the way that I’ve observed you walking in the world is very much, is very much just the symbiotic, this synergistic, like we’re all leading, you know? Um, which I know is a value of yours to do that, and you definitely do it, you know.

Shelby: Thank you. Yeah, no, it really is cuz like, I’m not, this is something I took from like my background in social work and getting my masters.

Alexis: Mm-hmm.

Shelby: Um, and the therapy training I have is like, you are the expert on your life, not me. I’m not the expert, I know the tools. I’m just here to help facilitate. And so it really, to me is that like collaborative co-creative, like symbiotic relationship.

And also to go back to like human design, which is really interesting, I think is a really interesting, um, lens for anybody who’s interested in it. 

Alexis: Sure. 

Shelby: That’s what I do. 

Alexis: Yeah.

Shelby: Like I, I like synthesize, I take the things in, I like turn it around and I hand it back to you, especially as like a projector, especially as a, um, a two five.

Alexis: Oh yeah. 

Shelby: So like, they’re both projector lines. Like, it’s really just like, here you go. Have you thought about this? What do you think about that? Like, um, here’s what I’m hearing from it. Is this correct or not correct for you? Like really giving you back the authority on it in the end, but being that extra vessel to like process through.

Alexis: Yep. 

Shelby: So I like your, you were just like, Yep, I agree. 

Alexis: Yep. 

Shelby: That was the experience. 

Alexis: Yeah, it absolutely was. And it’s just really interesting to me how when we get out of our heads, even just for a moment, we are guided to like energetically and we are, and like electromagnetically drawn to and guided to people that help.

I dunno, in a lot of ways we’re like, walk ourselves home, you know? 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: And walk each other home. And so it’s part of that, like those frequencies of, of one another. And it’s just neat what we need. And to, um, I guess my invitation to everyone is absolutely saying, noticing what you, what you’re drawn to and like, we’re all unique, which is gorgeous and beautiful and important, and like honoring our uniqueness.

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s, I don’t know. Like I was gonna say, I think that’s another reason we really get along, but I think that’s something that just resonates with both of us is like walking each other home, helping, like facilitating, I don’t even wanna say helping, but like just walking with somebody as they walk themselves home.

Alexis: Mm-hmm. 

Shelby: You know, like whether it’s through mindset, energy, work through a greater, um, Expansion of spiritual awareness and like living and everything, like it’s, It’s home. Walking home. Yeah. 

Alexis: Yeah. It’s caring about each other, and I think that’s part of what we are moving towards more. You know, we talk about synarchy and all these different things and non hierarchal living, and it all comes down to the fact that like we are as a society, and I do believe this, even though it’s sometimes in, when we’re zoomed in really closely, we can’t see it.

But if you zoom out enough, I think as a whole, we’re moving towards caring for each other more and showing up for each other more. And that being validated and, and our choices being more about that co-creation and the macroscopic, um, rather than just like, Oh, well this benefits only me and this awareness of, of how the choices that we make benefit each other. So like with money mindset, for example, like the more each of us is tuning into like what are some of the beliefs that we hold?

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: And how are they serving us? Or like what is it or what needs to shift here, or whatever it is. Or seeing things in the face for what they are, like, in a lot of ways we’re putting into the bucket of that being possible for other people. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: And that’s something that not everyone realizes, right? They think like money, mindset or whatever, healing is just for our individual self. And it’s like, no, what we do impacts everyone. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I the Alexis like synchronicities.

Um, the, at the beginning of each of my journals, I keep a section where I just transfer over information. 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: And so a lot of times it’s to help me, like stay, stay in like purpose and alignment and focus. So like this is something that everybody I think can take if you, nobody does it already. Um, so here’s one that I’ve taken from various journals that I’d love to share, if you don’t mind.

Alexis: Yeah, I’d love that. 

Shelby: Okay. Um, “we aren’t just changing the energy of and around money.” Like that’s the first part. And I wanna highlight this for a second because mindset is the tool, but we’re everything’s energy. And this is like when I do business energy work, it’s like, It’s all energy so we can all shift it, and part of how we shifted is through like how we think about it, which is like how then we interact with it. 

So “we aren’t just changing the energy of and around money, we’re also changing how we live – more compassionately and with deeper regard for one another. There is so much oppression and just gripping onto what one has out of greed and fear. And for many the fear is justified. We have to act in accordance with remedying this. We have to change our relationship with resources and each other. This is one – just one way for us to do that.” So like the money mindset is just one way to do that, in my opinion. But it is, as you were saying, like it’s a whole, a whole bigger picture.

Alexis: Yep. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And what’s really interesting, what came to mind there is that, this is where we need to have an, an additional layer of awareness with the way that if we’re talking specifically about money mindset, where a lot of times we can be guided to work on our money mindset and work on do whatever XYZ money and the whole purpose is to have more money, right?

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: To have more to, and I’m gonna like be very, um, hyperbolic here and like, okay. So have more money and have more things and have just all of that. And that that’s the focus. Right? And when we have that focus, sometimes what ends up actually happening is we’re still operating in scarcity. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And so when we think, you know, for me part of what scarcity is gonna be is when we aren’t, when we still feel, that, whether it’s consciously or not, that someone else has to have less for us to have more. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And when we’re not tuned into like the symbiotic nature of life and money and of everything, and when we still have these sensations of, or lack of awareness of the way our choices affect other people.

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: And I, I feel it’s so important. Something else that I’ve observed that’s quite fascinating is people who too, who still, who have so much, who have so much access to so many things and are still in this fabricated, Is that, Yeah, that feels really accurate to say that. It might not be very nice, but this fabricated – and it’s not always intentionally fabricated, right? Like this can be whatever – but this fabricated scarcity. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And this is where like that money mindset stuff becomes so important because it’s like reconciling what’s actually true too. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And what’s actually true is that, Abundance is everywhere. It’s everything regardless of how much you have and what you don’t, what you have or don’t have, what you’re experiencing is not the same as, as the abundance of, you know, we equate, we equate what we have in our specific experiences with whether or not we have abundance. And that’s just not, not the case.

And I, I feel like with the, the scarcity part of it, like we, something that’s been coming through frequently lately is that, For those of us who have access to more like financial resources or just resources as a whole, not just the sharing of the resources, but this awareness of what we have. Because when a person who is not experiencing food scarcity or like shelter scarcity or those kinds of things, but is still in a space where the mind is constricting them to believe like that they’re not safe.

I still don’t have enough. The magic on a lot of, social level, on energetic level, the magic of them recognizing how abundant they are and releasing that scarcity program essentially, right? And conditioning really allows for there to be a space and a template for people who are experiencing not enough access to resources, not enough like the basic kind of needs.

We’re really creating space for that template to open up. And when that template opens up, I do feel like there’s more of a flow of resources, but in a lot of ways there is that, not obligation, but I think invitation for people who do have, um, Cause that’s where we live right now. Being human at this moment is hierarchical, even though we’re moving away from it.

We lived hierarchically for millennia. And there’s, I don’t know. I feel like there has to be this awareness that while we’re moving and evolving away from that, that that’s also the way the world works right now. And that we have an imperative in a lot of ways to recognize our own abundance. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: You know, recognize our own abundance and our own access of resources, not just because it feels good. Right? And not just because it lets us actually breathe, but because doing that allows energetically for everyone to start, for just to shift. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

No, I just, I love this. It’s like, yes, I’m just soaking this in, this Alexis magic because there you have such a way with words and a way of like, 

Alexis: Aw, Thanks. 

Shelby: You’re welcome. Like almost channeling the information, but also like, not quite like, it’s like it’s there in you and it’s magic at the same time.

Alexis: Mm-hmm.

Shelby: So it’s like, it’s just so good. Um, but I, I definitely agree and I might choose different words, like I call it a false scarcity. 

Alexis: Mm-hmm. 

Shelby: Right? Like we’ve been taught and the system upholds that, I have to have less for somebody else to have more. Because the way the system is, it funnels right now money and resources from the many to a few, right?

And so thus it’s like perpetuated. So it’s not unfounded. This idea that like, I like, like we, it’s not totally unfounded. Like if I have more then somebody else has less. Because of the way that the system has taken from us, right? 

Alexis: Yes. 

Shelby: And at the same time that we’re able to choose something different, we’re able to co-create something different.

We’re able to get our mindset, do the energy work, do the spiritual healing, do the like activations into something different. And I love that, like you emphasize that too is like we have to recognize the reality for where we’re at. And also that we get to change it that we get to participate in and be invited into, uh, something different at the same time.

Alexis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And my experience of, of all of that has been so much that it has to do with what I make things mean. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: I have not found that I can manipulate my life into being anything that I desire to be, simply cuz I say so. I know that’s what often makes people money is to say, If you do X, Y, Z, then this and this will happen. And I haven’t found that to be even close to reality. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: Um, what I have found is that doing the work and allowing things, allowing there to be a neutrality with what things mean for me,

Shelby: mm-hmm. 

Alexis: allows for me to breathe and it allows for me to actually do what I’m here to do and to tap into part of my work. And what I talk about is allowing more of my consciousness and allowing more of myself to come in through this vessel. Right? And the only way to really do that is to remember who I am and to operate in that way, but it has to be for the sake of that. And oftentimes most people, and I even do this, like most people run around with this, this concept of like, I’m doing this thing for a certain outcome.

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And as long as we’re doing a certain thing for a certain outcome, we’re still in scarcity because we’re making it mean something. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: Period. 

Shelby: I remember we, we’ve had these conversations about, um, what things mean. I, I could not tell you how much of our conversations were about that, But yeah, what things mean, that’s huge.

What, what we make it to mean. 

Alexis: Yeah. And what we’re taught for it to mean, and all of those different layers of it. But that’s been my journey. You know, my journey with money has been quite interesting, but I, I feel like a lot of it, the number, the top couple things that I’ve learned are that I cannot manipulate my reality into being what I say so. I, and as long as I do that, or think that if I haven’t done it yet, that that’s not the pinnacle, 

Shelby: mm-hmm.

Alexis: then I’m in pain. And I’m in pain at a point where I can’t function. And if we can’t function, We’re not any good to ourselves or other people. And I, I really don’t feel like we came into be these, like, for me, my, my lens and view is I don’t believe that we incarnated to just sit around suffering and not being able to do anything like that doesn’t really make sense to me.

And so the what things mean and like that manipulation of reality because we truly like we’re co-creating for real. And what co-creation means is that it’s a conscious universe. So conscious universe means that it also has a say in what’s occurring. 

It’s like if we’re in a relationship, in, in a, um, romantic relationship, let’s say, right? And I say that I’m co-creating with my partner, but I’m telling them dictating everything and I don’t even ask them what they think and I’m saying, We’re co-creating. That’s bullshit. That is not what that is. That’s manipulative and like, you know, it’s, it’s just unhealthy. And, but that’s what we’re taught to do with manifestation and with the universe. Like the universe is, I don’t know, it’s just so hysterically, it’s just hysterical. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: Because it’s like, yeah, the universe is alive and it loves me and it wants everything that I want. It’s like, okay, let’s stop for one fucking minute and look at, okay, this can be true. And also, it isn’t just all about what our mind wants.

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: Like, are we tuned into like the totality of like the symbiotic nature of ourselves and life? 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: And that, that’s been, for me, that’s been my journey is like really tuning into that part is knowing I can’t manipulate it and it doesn’t mean I can’t also want things. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: Both things get to exist at the same time and really allowing what my experience is.

And the big part, once I do that, what I have to do concurrently is I cannot make it mean something because as long as I’m doing it, I can’t do the first thing. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: Cause as long as it means like if I have $5 in my bank account, it means I suck. Well then you, you can’t be in co-creation. You can’t like realize and be okay with whatever it is that’s occurring. As long as it means any, as long as it means anything, but especially the not great things. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: You can’t move. We get, we put ourselves in these little like prisons. Because, yeah. Cause we feel like we’re, we’re horrible or we’re failures or we’re like, No, I didn’t do it again. It’s, And then we lose sight of like the beauty of life.

Shelby: Mm-hmm. No, I laughed because it was very much a, is it the seven of swords or the eight of swords where they’re like tied up and blindfolded, but there’s like a ton of swords around them that they could like actually use to, to help –

Alexis: To get out, right? 

Shelby: Yeah. If they just took a moment to, to shift their perspective.

I always forget which one it is. I think it’s the eight. 

Alexis: Oh, I’m not good with that. So I don’t know. Yeah, it could be. 

Shelby: I think it’s the eight. I don’t know or remember. 

Alexis: Oh, yeah, because I think seven is the one where they’re beating the like, Yeah, I think the seven is the other one. 

Shelby: Okay. I was like one of ’em stealing too.

One of them’s like sneaking away from the camp with all the swords and I always forget, 

Alexis: That’s seven. I think that’s seven.

Shelby: That’s seven? Yeah. 

Alexis: I think.

Shelby: Whatever, somebody can go correct us and, and look at seven tarot cards. But yeah, it’s, I think it, it’s one of the two words always, like you have a, like, you actually have a choice.

It’s the illusion of not having choice. It’s your brain telling you that you don’t actually have it. And thus, like if you, like you’re saying, if you take the perspective that like you suck, you’re, you’re not actually a good person, you didn’t do something correctly, 

Alexis: yeah. 

Shelby: You’re creating that pain and this is stories you’ve been told.

So like you, you aren’t wholly, it’s not your fault. Right. I never put the blame on us, but we do have a responsibility to change it. 

Alexis: Mm-hmm. 

Shelby: So we were in this position where like, yeah, if I’m like, I suck. I’m a horrible person. I didn’t do things right. Hi, as like a recovering perfectionist. I’m like, All right, might as well just go lay in bed and not actually do anything, You know?

And then it, it just perpetuate itself and it sucks. It really sucks. 

Alexis: It does. And yeah, just to reiterate, we’re not at all blaming anyone or ourselves here, and it’s really my take, what I used to say in practice for the longest time, if you ever tell yourself unkind things, anything you hear in your head that is unkind, it’s lie.

Shelby: Mm-hmm. . 

And it came from somewhere. You didn’t pop out with that in your head. Yeah.

Alexis: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. 

And it’s so someone may say, Oh, but what if it’s true? No, but if it’s unkind, then that means it’s layered with opinion and it’s layered with opinion and it’s being made to mean something. So when we strip away that stuff and we look at purely an observational fact is really different than all of the layers of BS that we put on things.

And particularly like that our circumstances mean a certain thing that any circumstance that we’re in means something. And I think that that’s where we can start to get into like that, um, the blaming of the victim consciousness and things like that. And that’s where it gets really kind of complicated and people are like, Well, if I co-create then, then that means that I created this thing that happened to me.

And it’s like, well, no, it’s actually a lot more complicated than that . And what we’re really looking at here is that thing that happened to you, it doesn’t actually matter what the genesis of it was. Okay. It doesn’t, I don’t find it to matter. I feel like what really matters is what you’re making that experience mean. 

And when we neutralize what it means, we can just address how we felt about what we experienced, because what we are feeling about an experience is really different than what our mind is making it mean. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: So I stopped. No. What it means is actually, or not, rather what it means, what I meant to say is what I’m feeling.

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: I’m sad and I’m a little disappointed that it worked out this way, and I feel a little disappointed in myself because maybe I could try harder. 

Shelby: Mm. 

Alexis: And while that still can be not a hundred percent where we wanna go, it’s also much more neutralized than I’m just horrible and I suck. 

Shelby: Yeah, yeah, definitely getting it to a more neutral point, and I wanna like also point out with the co-creation is like, I always take the perspective like it’s not just like two parties, like you and the universe. There’s like what, 7 billion other people on the planet also co-creating. 

Alexis: Like, and that’s if we’re only talking about our human part, right? 

Shelby: Yeah. 

Alexis: If we’re only talking about this part, it’s so much bigger than that. Like consciousness and expression of consciousness is so much more complicated. And, um, that’s the realm in the world that I live in. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: But, um, it is, it’s so nuanced and it’s so complex. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: And, it isn’t just as simple.

And also my experience has been there is not actually a good list and a bad list, which is what human beings think. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And that’s part of the issue is that we think that there’s a list of things that are bad and we wanna avoid the bad list things. We only wanna live with good list things, and if we have bad list things, we did something wrong.

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And that’s just not the way it works. Like just because something happens to you that’s on the bad list, it doesn’t actually mean anything other than that was a shitty thing that happened. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: And then we experience the emotions. We look at where, where am I? What is happening next? Like, where am I moving towards?


Shelby: Yeah. 

Alexis: Yeah. Cause otherwise we get trapped. We get trapped in circumstances, We get trapped in just a thing that happened to us and we aren’t even addressing our emotions about it, which is what’s gonna set us free too.

Shelby: Yeah. 

Alexis: Yeah. Anyway. 

Shelby: No. I think like in going back to like the work we did together and that I do with other people is like even with mindset, so like mindset, energy work, a lot of it is facilitating the movement through so that we can like move towards what we’re moving towards.

Alexis: Yep. Exactly. 

Yeah, what feels vibrationally true in our bodies? And that’s like one of the, the pillars with like your journal for example. It’s really like looking and sorting and being able to actually look at the conversations of your mind. And I think it’s especially useful for people who I think emotional authorities especially, right?

Like hi was by one, right? Um, which is 50% of the population in case you’re into human design. Um, Yeah, because I think that a person who’s an emotional authority, my observation has been that having a place where you can sort it all out and hash it all out and like, really, cuz there’s so many nuanced emotions and being able to really like okay.

And guiding yourself through the experience. It’s, it’s unique, it’s different like mindset for a person who like experiences emotions that way is different. And, um, it’s beautiful to have a resource where you can actually like sit there and play with and put a mirror to your mind to like actually see it for what it is.

Because if you don’t pull out that thought of like, I’m irresponsible with money, 

Shelby: mm-hmm. 

Alexis: because when you were little, your parents told you that or whatever. Like, you know what I mean? Like, if you don’t take that out, it’s there, You don’t even notice it. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: which is where yeah. That mindset part’s so important.

Shelby: Mm-hmm. It is, it really is. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And it is very much a mirror, like I talk about it like as creating space between like the thought and like the, like it is my thought and just like it is a thought. 

Alexis: Mm-hmm.

Shelby: For me, journaling creates that space. But it could be like in sessions with people like, uh, the other person, right?

Like getting it out, handing it to the other person. Now it’s not really mine, right? It’s not in me. It’s not me. It’s a thing that we can now 

Alexis: Yep. 

Shelby: Turn around and look at and turn upside down and things like that. 

Alexis: Yep. Exactly. 

Shelby: Yeah. Yeah. I’m glad you agree. Cause I’m like, That’s what I think I’m doing . And you’re like, Yes, I agree.

And I’m like, Okay, cool. Yes, that is, That is somewhat of your experience too good. 

Alexis: Yeah, absolutely. And being able to witness ourselves. And journaling lets you witness yourself in a different way. 

Shelby: Yeah. And I understand journaling’s not everybody’s accessibility. Like if we go back to human design, like some people are soundboard, sound boarding authorities, right?

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: And so like you need that like facilitation of there being somewhere,

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: Like talking it out, going somewhere. Right? And so maybe it’s journaling. Maybe for some people it’s just deep reflective thinking meditation, you know? 

Alexis: Absolutely. 

Shelby: For sure. So, but yeah, I think, I think it was really, really like for us in session, cuz to me it is co-creative.

Like it is very symbiotic. It is very like we’re in this together. Um, and I’m here for you, not like you being here for some outside purpose. I’m here for you. What is your purpose in here? Really like digging into the what do you want? What do you think this is, What is, what does that mean to you, and could we neutralize it, as you’ve been saying, which I really like neutralize it.

Alexis: Yeah. That’s what it ends up being about, because otherwise we have our mind and the thoughts have power over us. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: When they’re justa project tool made. 

Shelby: Yeah. Yeah. So from 2019 to, I guess we’ll just say this moment because that’s an easy reference, um, you’ve mentioned quite a few different things that have been like part of your journey and that have been really big, like, learning points or experience points or things like that for you. 

Alexis: Mm-hmm.

Shelby: Uh, over the course of our time together and through now, what would you, what would you say like was the biggest shift or one of the biggest, Because I’m sure it’s hard to extrapolate just one.

Alexis: I’d probably say coming to a point where, and this is something I continue to work on. 

Shelby: Yeah.

Alexis: But coming to a point where $5 is the same as a million. 

Shelby: Mm. That’s hard. 

Alexis: It is. It’s an interesting thing, but it, it’s, I think it’s really pivotal to the freedom 

Shelby: mm-hmm. 

Alexis: that we all are seeking and that liberation from a paradigm that is human and it isn’t part of what we actually are.

And I’m a total proponent of, of, you know, Yeah. We’re in these physical bodies having a human experience and also we’re not at the same time 

Shelby: mm-hmm. 

Alexis: and each of us has a different, Experience of that, right? 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: and a different like level and spectrum of, of how much, um, how much we’re aware of within ourself and, and all of that.

But part of the liberation is really knowing that money’s just an experience. It’s just a human experience. Part of, um, yeah, its just a human experience really. Is, is what I’ve, the biggest shift for me. And that, that’s why I say like, the $5 has to be the same as a million. And it is, it’s a really difficult thing. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: Um, but when you do that, and even when you, like for me playing in and out of that space 

Shelby: mm-hmm.

Alexis: you know, cuz it is a difficult thing. As long as we’re having this human experience to stay there, you know, we’re gonna pop in and out. But it is, it’s a point of liberation that’s huge to know that doesn’t actually mean anything and, the only constant in this life is change, which means that $5 doesn’t mean anything because one day it’ll become something else, and then it’s something else.

And then it’s the flow. It’s about representation of, um, a flow, that that’s it, That’s all it is. 

Whether we have or don’t have or whatever. It’s this, I don’t know. The another part of it for me has really tuned into how observational I am and allowing it to be more observational, to be a witness to my experience.

And that reduces the pain. And I feel like while we cannot escape pain in this human life, we wanna reduce it because then we can actually operate in the world and do the things that we’re here to do. Because if we’re in so much pain and agony that we’re like rocking ourselves in a corner, it’s just not productive to ourselves or to other people.

Shelby: Yeah. Yeah. And it just sucks. Period. It just sucks. Period. 

Alexis: Exactly. 

Shelby: So, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. 

Alexis: Yeah, you’re welcome. 

Shelby: Appreciate it. And I wanna say also for me, it has been that expansion of perspective and experience and, and everything because we, I feel like we operate, in like if we put it on like a three dimensional thing, we operate in different realms, but of the same thing.

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: In a way. And so you have always expanded my awareness and understanding and everything. 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: Because it is like same realm, different, different space, different area. And so it’s like, Oh, what’s going on over there? And you’re like, I think not just for me, but as for everybody. So if this is what you’re looking for, Alexis’s magic at this, at that expansion of experience and understanding of what’s possible, expansion of what’s possible, and allowing you then to access what is possible.

Because if we just think, like, if we go back to that eight of swords, we’ll just say that’s what it is, whatever it is, of like, you’re stuck. If you are of what’s possible is I’m just stuck, right? I, I’m just blindfolded and my hands are tied. I can’t do anything then that’s what you experience. But if you work with Alexis, the expansion of what’s possible is, well, maybe there’s something else here, and thus something beyond my perception as it currently is. And then you’re like, Oh, there’s a sword. Now I can rub my tied hands against the thing and it’ll break the rope, or whatever. You know, like, And then my hands are free.

Like it’s, 

Alexis: Yes. 

Shelby: very different. And so I think that’s, that’s a continued experience that I also got. Like from us working together. 

Alexis: Yeah. 

Shelby: Um, Is that expansion of what’s possible. 

Alexis: I love that. 

Shelby: Me too. A cool reflection. 

Alexis: Yeah.

Shelby: Yeah. And I’m all about, as projector I’m all about recognition.

Alexis: Oh yeah. So important. 

Shelby: Yeah. So it’s not just per like recognition of self and like me receiving, but it’s also giving the recognition to other people. So, yeah. 

Alexis: Yeah. There’s nothing quite like being seen by a projector. It’s a special thing for sure.

Shelby: It is. It, it’s different. 

We all have our like, little magic pieces. 

Alexis: Oh yeah. But yeah, there’s nothing quite like being seen by a projector cuz they like, they penetrate you in a way that like, that’s just the energetics of it, right? 

Shelby: Yeah. 

Alexis: Um, but it is, it’s that and like that’s where it’s, um, obviously with consent is what we’re discussing here too, which is the invitation, the recognition, all that stuff, But 

Shelby: mm-hmm.

Alexis: um, yeah, I think that’s, yeah. It’s a beautiful thing to be witnessed and I think that that’s one of the greatest things that I experienced with you is being witnessed and like that, that may be a big part of just what all of us are desiring, is to be witnessed by one another. 

Shelby: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially in a system that makes you feel insignificant and worthless and because that’s how it keeps you stuck, right?

That’s how it keeps you as part of the system. 

Alexis: Oh yeah, we could go, you know, we could go rabbit hole there, but we won’t right now. There’s, yeah, there’s so much there as to why, and like that’s where that liberation of self and understanding and like how, we each have a different path with how, um, if we’re looking at the, the systemic 

Shelby: mm-hmm.

Alexis: experience under a microscope or macroscopic, like with a telescope, because it looks different with both, Right. And I think either is correct, It’s whatever our path is to look at it. But knowing that systems of oppression are systems of oppression and to think they magically got there is not the case.

And that there’s reasons why things are in place. And when we start to look at that, that’s also part of that liberation because then that’s the part where I talked about like that. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: a system of oppression as a whole does not want you to feel like $5 is the same as a million. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: and wants you to continue to feel that $5 is not enough, won’t ever be enough.

Because then what happens when you do that is that a million’s still not enough. And then five million’s not enough, and then 10 million’s, not enough. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm.

Alexis: And that’s, that’s the trick to it. All right. That’s the trick to it all. And that’s where I talked about before, like allowing ourselves, especially when we have, for those of us who have like a lot of access to resources, but we’re still afraid.

And we have large savings accounts and we have all these things that’s like, Oh, I dunno if I can buy that, or I dunno if I can spend that, or I dunno if I can give that. And it’s like, okay, we are living in scarcity based on what, when the reality isn’t sharing that. 

Shelby: Mm-hmm. 

Alexis: So when we can look at abundance around us, no matter what the dollar amounts are, that’s liberation.

Liberation from the system and all of that stuff. And maybe we all be liberated.

Shelby: Love it. We just have to like, clap. The silent clap. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for sharing all of that and bringing it together in a nice, beautiful bow. 

Alexis: Yay! 

Shelby: So, um, again, for everybody listening, please, experience, Alexis, in whatever way capacity.

You choose slash is accessible to you, et cetera, like invitation. Go have fun. Alexis is amazing. Love Alexis. We’ll have all the links in the, uh, show notes in the description, whether you are on Spotify, Apple podcasts, my website, et cetera. Wherever you’re accessing it, go get them from there. And yeah. Fun, exciting stuff.

Alexis: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It was a beautiful conversation. It was really lovely to reminisce of, of our experience together and to just share it with everyone that, Yeah, our evolution, our expansion. Right? 

Shelby: Right, right. 

Alexis: Yep. 

Shelby: Thank you. Um, 

Alexis: Thank you. 

Shelby: We’ll have to do it again because there are so many things that we could get into and that we didn’t and that we briefly touched on and that we didn’t even touch on.


Alexis: Oh gosh. We could riff on anything. It’s so fun. 

Shelby: So invitation, standing invitation for Alexis to come back. And also invitation for people to go, uh, invite her, give her things to respond to, to discuss on, on her social medias, podcast, emails, wherever she wants to discuss the things. 

Alexis: Yes. All the things. Yep. Awesome. 

Shelby: Thank you so much!

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